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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:11 am 
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Vainglorious BassTurd
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I bot a roll of Prospectors yesterday from a local dealer.
The dealer offered that they had come from the same person who had sold a few rolls of pristine early 1980s libertads, including at least one in the original bank roll. They were nice. Mine are minty frosty and lustrous, the end pieces on the wrapped roll I didn't buy had beautiful blue and purple toning. Ya'll might recall I lamented I didn't need the other until they had already walked out the door. :(

Anywho, I rarely buy prospectors, because I know there are lots of fakes of these out there (smoething Perry reminded me of, he's such a sweetie). Especially 1984-dated pieces, which these are. And the fakes all seem to have proof or prooflike surfaces, too. So my spidey sense was on high already.

Here's the ketch: The fakes generally seen are the "Big E" type--those with the large Engelhard logo on the reverse. These are the flying eagle type.

Weighed them: Spot on. Perfect. 1 troy oz each.

Examined them under several lights: Look good. The design is deeply struck, not flat like the fakes. The detail is all there. And they also don't have the fakey frosted cameo proof devices seen on the bad fakes.

Rang them. Sound correct.

So I got out my digital calipers. Every example I have from 1983 through 1985, all styles, including these new questionable pieces, fit within very tight margins. Width, diameter, weight within a few grains of each other across all styles.

Image

Now Allengelhard.com shows the fakes with good write-ups. Here's a typical "proof" 1984 prospector from allengelhard.com

Image


All of the proof fakes they show are big e, too. That's not to say there aren't fake eagles out there.

Allengelhard.com also shows the real prospectors, of course. Engelhard switched from Big E to eagle in mid-1984. It's the 1984 big E that seem to be the most counterfeited. But here's where it gets interesting. Eng produced proof flying eagle prospectors in 1983 (though they weren't supposed to have switched from E to eagle until 1984). And Eng produced proof flying eagle prospectors in 1985. But there are apparently no known proof flying eagle 1984 prospectors.

So I emailed allengelhard yesterday and asked them what they thot. What other tests, including invasive, could I make. Sent them multiple huge images obverse and reverse.

Again, I'm not saying they're not fake. I'm a big boy and I buy questionable stuff because high risk = high reward and because I enjoy the thrill and the journey.

And my boy Occam would say if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck: They're fake.

But wouldn't it be cool if I found a discovery roll of proof prospectors?

Compare the detail, depth, lettering, denticals on the fake above with mine here:

Image

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This has to be one of the most bigoted hate filled posts I've ever seen here. --clw54 05/20/09
He's a uninformed dumbass. --tlhoy 01/01/10
You want change in 2012? I'll give you friggin' change. --baccaruda 10/21/11
Nothing Goddy about it. Just science, bitches. --flamino 12/09/11


Last edited by Weiss on Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:19 am 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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Did you just say.....................


.................................................."ANYWHO ????"......................................


Mods, people, good Americans, ladies and gentlemen............

Do you not think ...... I ..... should be replaced in the "COOT" list???

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Interesting for sure.
I wonder if you have smoething there?
Here's a pic I took a while back of a couple fakes here locally...
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:48 pm 
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send them to get melted, that's the sure proof.

I got out of prospector type four years ago


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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My ROUNDS are ALL gone.

Ceptin' for the Dansco with samples.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:15 pm 
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I have a similar dansco for interesting rounds. I see you have a fake Panda in there... whistle:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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BMatt wrote:
I have a similar dansco for interesting rounds. I see you have a fake Panda in there... whistle:


But it's a Steiff. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Vainglorious BassTurd
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So here's an update:

I mentioned I'd sent the images, weights, etc. to allengelhard.com and asked if they were authentic, proof, proof-like, or other? They just responded:

Thank you for the email and our regrets on the delayed response. Been family vacation time for a couple of us and just now getting back into the saddle.

What we believe you have there is a beautiful roll of well struck and relatively untouched Prosectors. These were produced by a new or relatively new die which resulted in the brilliant finish. Were these to be graded in the same manner as numismatic coins you’d be looking at a nice grade. These are not the proof-like rounds listed as they do not have the frosted finish but are a terrific find nonetheless. Hope this helps!

Cheers for now,
AE



So that's pretty cool, huh? :D

Image

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This has to be one of the most bigoted hate filled posts I've ever seen here. --clw54 05/20/09
He's a uninformed dumbass. --tlhoy 01/01/10
You want change in 2012? I'll give you friggin' change. --baccaruda 10/21/11
Nothing Goddy about it. Just science, bitches. --flamino 12/09/11


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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Location: Rollo Tomassi 2814 Breaking Wind Way, Represa, CA
.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:55 pm 
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nice Prosectors.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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Great pickup.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:36 pm 
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I'm so confused
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:cool:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:59 pm 
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:cool:

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Aloha comrades!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Smoe old dude's fried ball sundae~4-Ever!
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appl2:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:05 am 
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I'm pretty sure Weiss regularly trips and falls, and ends up with a four leaf clover shoved up his a$$.....

:D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:02 am 
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Emails signed with both a large A and E are known to be suspect.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:38 am 
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Vainglorious BassTurd
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surfinx wrote:
I'm pretty sure Weiss regularly trips and falls, and ends up with a four leaf clover shoved up his a$$.....

:D


You can't win if you don't play :D

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This has to be one of the most bigoted hate filled posts I've ever seen here. --clw54 05/20/09
He's a uninformed dumbass. --tlhoy 01/01/10
You want change in 2012? I'll give you friggin' change. --baccaruda 10/21/11
Nothing Goddy about it. Just science, bitches. --flamino 12/09/11


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:57 am 
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Gotta admit, Weiss has a good eye.

Well done.... thumbsup: thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:18 am 
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I'm so confused
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coinmickey wrote:
Gotta admit, Weiss has a good eye.


Good lord. Like his MS65 $10 Indian.

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26713

coinmickey: "We're going to join the really smart countries, our buddies Syria and Nicaragua!! Great company!! It'll be bigly fantastic!!!"
coinmickey: "Nicaragua, Venezuela...whatever. You know what I was talking about."


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