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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:00 pm 
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adamlaneus wrote:
we passed measure A in 2016 in Santa Clara county to house the homeless.

a billion dollars for seven thousand homeless. Only three thousand of which are willing to live in a shelter.

So a billion dollars for three thousand people. Let me divide that out. Thats one third of a million dollars per person that we have COMMITTED to spend.
Ignore the fact that this money actually goes to developers.

The "we don't have money" argument is not convincing. We're spending about $83,000 per year for each chronically homeless person right now.
So any argument against criminalizing homeless that is based on how expensive it is...is not a good argument whatsoever.

There are scads of laws on the books that might be used to get the chronically homeless off of the street. First and foremost, it's not legal to camp in our public parks.
Moving them on, however, is merely a game of whack-a-mole. San Jose really screwed it's populace when it emptied out "The Jungle". Hundreds of ill folks spread out everywhere and caused widespread problems. If the Jungle had not been cleared...it flooded good this past rainy season...people would have died. The solution? Stop pushing them around. They need a place. This place needs supervision as they cannot care for themselves.

Jail is not the answer. Jail is indeed for criminals. But the criminal homeless are not served well by a jail. They need a more permanent institution.

Now if they had a facility to put these people into, they could enforce these laws without putting them in jail.

Putting a person into an institution indefinitely is not something one does lightly. You do that to prevent worse problems. Well, we've got the worse problem now. Hep A in your downtown. Better get vaccinated.

Which is another point... you'd think that a Hep A outbreak could be vaccinated against. But these folks are so far off of the grid, how do you vaccinate someone who flees?


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What's amazing to me is Cloris Leachman is not an ugly person. But this role? Good lord what a transformation.

I speak from a fairly hardened viewpoint caused by a few (just two actually) very bad local homeless people that are screwing up my local 'hood. These people have been in the courts. They have been in jail. Jail is not permanent. As soon as they get out, they go back to their bad behaviors. Which includes arson, tossing large objects through plate glass windows and exposing themselves to children in the local starbucks. It's not very tolerable.


If they are willing to camp, buy them a tent. Build them a campground, so they are not using the public parks.

Funny thing is...Canada has less people living on the streets during winter.

Solve global warming...less homeless.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:06 pm 
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It certainly is more socialist.

I can only speak for BC. They spend tons of money to help the druggies, and homeless. Whereas I see very little effort in the OC, except for Laguna Beach. Because it's a small town, solely reliable on tourists, they set up a homeless shelter years ago. Used to be the cops would put them on a bus to LA. To try and keep the scruffy beggars from being seen on the streets. When I drive through downtown Laguna Beach it doesn't look bad at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:07 pm 
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MacGyver wrote:
adamlaneus wrote:
we passed measure A in 2016 in Santa Clara county to house the homeless.

a billion dollars for seven thousand homeless. Only three thousand of which are willing to live in a shelter.

So a billion dollars for three thousand people. Let me divide that out. Thats one third of a million dollars per person that we have COMMITTED to spend.
Ignore the fact that this money actually goes to developers.

The "we don't have money" argument is not convincing. We're spending about $83,000 per year for each chronically homeless person right now.
So any argument against criminalizing homeless that is based on how expensive it is...is not a good argument whatsoever.

There are scads of laws on the books that might be used to get the chronically homeless off of the street. First and foremost, it's not legal to camp in our public parks.
Moving them on, however, is merely a game of whack-a-mole. San Jose really screwed it's populace when it emptied out "The Jungle". Hundreds of ill folks spread out everywhere and caused widespread problems. If the Jungle had not been cleared...it flooded good this past rainy season...people would have died. The solution? Stop pushing them around. They need a place. This place needs supervision as they cannot care for themselves.

Jail is not the answer. Jail is indeed for criminals. But the criminal homeless are not served well by a jail. They need a more permanent institution.

Now if they had a facility to put these people into, they could enforce these laws without putting them in jail.

Putting a person into an institution indefinitely is not something one does lightly. You do that to prevent worse problems. Well, we've got the worse problem now. Hep A in your downtown. Better get vaccinated.

Which is another point... you'd think that a Hep A outbreak could be vaccinated against. But these folks are so far off of the grid, how do you vaccinate someone who flees?


Image


What's amazing to me is Cloris Leachman is not an ugly person. But this role? Good lord what a transformation.

I speak from a fairly hardened viewpoint caused by a few (just two actually) very bad local homeless people that are screwing up my local 'hood. These people have been in the courts. They have been in jail. Jail is not permanent. As soon as they get out, they go back to their bad behaviors. Which includes arson, tossing large objects through plate glass windows and exposing themselves to children in the local starbucks. It's not very tolerable.


If they are willing to camp, buy them a tent. Build them a campground, so they are using the public parks.



They are predatory. They want to be very close to downtown. This is where panhandling is the best. Food can be had. Things can be stolen and fenced. Drugs and booze can be obtained. It's not quite that they want to be excluded from society. They want to predate on society. This is why I am so against the chronically homeless doing their crap in public.

A campground for the homeless would probably be an acceptable alternative to an asylum. As long as they are restricted to the campground, the campground has all of the facilities and items that they require.

This is sounding a lot like Manzanar. Which history rightfully views as a Bad Thing. We've got to get over that. We are not forcing people into a location because of their race. We are forcing people into a location because of their behavior.

The homeless taking over the St. James park in the middle of downtown? That ends up being a few acres in the middle of downtown that none of the public will tread except for the people that hand out food. It's super bad for any business in the area. The only establishments that work in this environment are churches and soup kitchens.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:10 pm 
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If government could tax every taxpayer to the point of being homeless, we'd all be equal.

Government officials would still be rich and will have not solved the problem of homelessness. So, why not let big government decide how to solve the problem?

You've elected them, so let them do their jobs.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:12 pm 
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can the government actually tax me to the point that i lose my mind, scream at things, steal a bike and then 'fix' it for the next twelve hours as the drugs wear off, Elmo my pants and do heroin, flakka and meth?


maybe.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:22 pm 
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I think I've got a solution. Have the taxpayer provide the homeless with everything that the taxpayer has.

Buy them a house, a monthly income for being a citizen and anything else they want/need.

Cheaper than putting them in an asylum.

Refugees and illegals should get the same.

We could tax corporations more to make up the difference. Mind you, workers won't be very motivated to produce if they can have as much living off the taxpayers' dime

Utopia...here we come. No more urine and excretement in front of the court house. Liberalism is the solution!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:31 pm 
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I've only seen one homeless guy make money, and be an asset to the community. Back in the 60's and 70's there was a greeter as you drove into Laguna Beach. He was an older man who had a beard. He stood on the corner where you would have to turn left into Laguna Beach. He would wave and smile. People wanted to give him money, because he was so friendly. http://www.thegoodlifelaguna.com/2012/0 ... h-greeter/

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For any of you coming to Laguna Beach prior to 1975 may remember Eiler Larsen, for his welcoming wave and booming voice. For almost 40 years, he was the official Greeter of Laguna. Rain or shine, you could find him standing on Pacific Coast Highway, waiving to the visitors of Laguna Beach, and booming “Helloo-ooo”.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Socialism...just like the old days in Russia.

Government: Give the people enough $ for vodka and Netflix, they won't revolt, we'll get rich and rule the world

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:40 pm 
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in my area, panhandlers fight over medians in the middle of the street to beg from people in their cars waiting for a left turn.

in fact, occasionally there are turf wars with one dude or a group of dudes forcing another out because it's "their turf for begging".

last year i was biking and actually heard one of these conversations. one dude was ejecting another. people in cars tend not to hear this stuff.

disgusting really.

laws exist to stop roadway panhandling. those laws are not enforced.


but a greeter at city limits? that's kind of cool. very rarely does an individual get such a reputation within a community.
that person still knew how to establish a good spot in the social system and actually made people happy and smile.

the ratty folks in my area begging on the median do not make me happy nor do they make me smile.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:42 pm 
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if it was just vodka, the drug of choice, many of these folks would just sleep much of the time.

around here, who knows.

i saw one homeless fellow doing some sort of drug addled dance on the sidewalk. another homeless fellow, trying to talk him down, shouted out to me "kick him in the face if you need to, he's retarded".

good lord i'll never forget that one. :lol: No face kicking. Just keep a twenty yard distance.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:47 pm 
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I'm more worried about Tumuss being a homeless person?

I don't need a work permit to volunteer, do I, Flaminio?

You guys can bitch and moan about Tumuss pissing and Elmo on the courthouse sidewalk the next time it happens.

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